Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Natural numbers need not be in scope of intuition. Imagine a diffuse intelligence formed in a fluid (such a thing is at least imaginable), it has no fingers, it recognises no individual things, not even itself, it has no intuition of the natural numbers. If this being makes statement on arithmetic, like 1+1=2, according to you this statement is not "meaningfully true". Yet it is true, and this being has derived it from (abstract) thought. So what is "meaningfully true"?


> need not be in scope of intuition.

> Imagine

Imagination is in principle intuitive.

> it recognises no individual things, not even itself,

self-awareness is part of the common definition of intelligence.

> Imagine [something that is patently made up]

> Yet it is true

utter nonsense

> it has no intuition of the natural numbers. If this being makes statement on arithmetic, like 1+1=2, ...

How?

You can't just say

> imagine Natural numbers need not be in scope of intuition

> then Natural numbers need not be in scope of intuition

I mean, sure you can, but that is circular reasoning and not at all convincing.


You prove his point with your fluid example. Integers have _everything_ to do with our world. If we lived in a fluid world, then the mathematics of that world will not have integers.

Take a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothes...


Perhaps my point is misunderstood here: it is that if we think of mathematical truth as being based on intuition, then since what can be intuited depends on the species, on the society, even on the individual (99% of what was intuitive to Grothendieck is completely beyond me), then mathematical truth becomes relative. I say no, 1+1=2 universally, whether it is intuitive to you or not.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: